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 Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA

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PhantomnessFay
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:53 pm

It's human nature. It something appears different from what we are used to, we avoid it or try to kill it.

The Phantom represents the Devil tempting us to choose darkness and follow him. All of his parlour tricks, trapdoors and secret passages help to create such an illusion, especially with the mesmerizing sound of his enchanting voice. From this we get the feeling of Persephone and Hades. The Phantom makes an eloquent Hades I must add.

In the 2004 film, Christine is caught in the thrall of the Opera Ghost and led through the mirror, into what she sees is a beautiful, enchanting world; recall the arms as sconces hold candelabras lighting the way to the lair.

The mirror, something we often look at to see our reflections, but what else is there? If we look deep enough we will see more than a reflection.

With all the ways mirrors played in both film and novel, one may reject what is reflected or call it for what it truly is. For instance, Christine tells the Phantom,"This haunted face holds no horror for me now. It's in your soul that the true distortion lies."

From this we realize the Phantom is not hideous because of his looks, but because of his actions and thoughts.

In the novel, the torture chamber consists of mirrors rotating on axis to intensify the heat emitted from the electric light. In this way, Erik allowed the victim to do themselves in.

The Phantom and mirrors, such illusions, no magic and a lot of deceit. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:05 pm

The Phantom to me is temptation. Like you said, the devil tempting us. He knows what we want and shows us how we can get it, but it's not without some sacrifice. I know myself, I'm drawn towards the "bad boy", so I would have been all over the opera ghost! The mysteriousness of it all. I assume that's what drew Meg to him as well.

Mirrors are interesting. They tell neither truth or fiction. Everyone sees something different in a mirror. The idea of the moral or internal mirror is what Christine tries to get the Phantom to look at when she uses your above quote. I often wonder what kind of like Erik would have lived had he lived in society, yes, he was deformed, but accepted anyways. Instead of hiding his whole life, imagine what he could have accomplished.
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:14 pm

Had Erik, in any version, lived like the average man, he would never had attained the skills and knowledge he acquired as a creature of darkness.

Most likely we would never have seen him as a scary dude among the shadows, seducing young girls. Instead, he may have been a dysfunctional man with mixed emotions as we often see nowadays.

If you notice, Erik was never unsure of what he wanted; always knew how to treat a lady and evidently was a great provider and defender of his property. Sounds like the makings of a grand husband. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:11 pm

Except for the psychotic side and all. But you're right, I always wonder how well he would have fared in the real world. But his education and all came from being 5 cellars under and reading everything and listening to everything. He likely would have turned out nothing like he did, or like I'm thinking. I bought another copy of "Phantom of Manhattan". I can totally see Erik doing something like that, becoming a financial giant. I don't know what I think of ALW doing the sequel. Is he doing it for money? I mean, that many has more money than he can know what to do with. So, what's his reasoning behind this? Does he not realize how many Phantom phans didn't like POM? I worry what's going to happen once it comes out.
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:16 pm

Think back a moment. You said the Phantom attained all his skills and knowledge from living beneath the Opera House, reading and listening. All this is from the 2004 film. In reality, he could not have been so learned if he hadn't traveled as we see in the novel. Persia, Turkey, perhaps India and of course returning to France, this is where he acquired his experience causing him to evolve into what we know today.

ALW will probably use the basis of POM for another stage production. Yes, it's all about money. He like most producers think of one project is a money maker, a sequel will be too.

I don't know how much he knows about Phans. As long as Phantom brings in the do-re-mi, he doesn't care. He probably figures people must love it if he's making big bucks.
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:23 pm

I do agree that the Phantom would have needed more than just books to gain his vast knowledge. Books can only teach you so much. Although, he could have learned a lot from observing in the opera. It is true that he would have learned so much more in his travels then if he had simply stayed at the opera house. It is amazing that he was able to travel as much as he did with his deformity, which at that time would have been considered evil (or whatever word fits here).

The more I think of it, the more I am fascinated by what Erik could have been had he been accepted by society as "normal". He may never have become a hightly educated man. He could have had a menial job. His circumstances shaped him, as it does for all of us. He could have been such a different person.

It's a shame that ALW feels the need to make a sequel. How much money does one man need? He has so many successful ventures that are still bringing in a lot of money. Although, we have known from the get go that there would likely be a sequel, given the way ALW ended his stage performance. Yes, it could have just been a way to end it in a dramatic and questionable way. But it was obvious, at least to me, that there would eventually be a sequel. What would be the sequel was out of my reach, but I figured someday there would be one. I am so anxious to read POM. Like I said, I just got a new copy of it, and look forward to reading it to see what all the hoohah is about. I need to do it so that I'm not in the middle of reading it when I have my next treatment, or I'll never remember what's going on. It's a real shame that ALW doesn't pay more attention to the Phans around the world. We are what keep making him money. Without Phans, he would have nothing.

Sorry for the ramblings. I hope it all makes sense. I'm tired and that gets me a little loopy drunken
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:28 am

True, it is amazing that Erik traveled as he did with such a deformity, but he did so as a circus freak or a hired killer. Neither position required flawless features and perfect skin. Actually, this is what forced many people who were physically challenged go into a life of crime or unsavory ways to survive.

Too often it's human nature to admire the beautiful ones and shun those who are not. I'll be the first one to admit it's very difficult to not draw back or turn away from someone who looks different from what we consider the norm.

This is why we get stories like "Beauty and the Beast", "King Kong", and of course Phantom. Too often we don't see beyond what's in our face. What about the heart? What about the person deep inside?

Again, I'm sure ALW is only watching reviews from selected critics and the revenue coming from his long running stage production of Phantom. You do know he broke his own record with "Cats" being the longest running show on Broadway? Yes, "The Phantom of the Opera" has been running for more than twenty years and for him, its a sign that if he's made millions from this one, he could make even more from a second.

It's like gambling. When a gamler wins once, he wants to play again, with the hopes of winning a larger sum of money the next time. It's always the next time...
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:54 am

It's true what you say about Erik's deformity and his "choice" of careers. You do what you have to to survive. Not everyone of course would become hired killers, but they would accept any work to support themselves and to live. I have spent my entire life looking past physical and mental differences. I will not lie and say that I am not affected by them, but I do my darndest to see past that. I spent years working with youth who were at risk. I've seen kids go passed that I know someday will turn out to be murderers or rapists. It kills me to see this, but there is only so much we can do for these people. I gave these kids everything I had, and for some, it made the world of difference. We were able to change lives and help them to make better choices. Some were just too far gone for us to help. I grew up with an uncle who was mentally challenged. He has the capacity of about a 5 year old, perhaps. When my grandmother passed in 1997, we gained custody of my uncle. I used to work with him a lot, took him to his special olympics bowling league, whatever. But I wasn't blind. I saw the people staring at us, because he was different. More and more of us are trying our best to look past these things, to see the person inside. As a society we accept them more and more. That's why I think that Erik's story would be totally different in our days. I'm babbling again....sorry Sad

As for ALW....I don't know what to think. This man is a genius. He really is. But you're right...the greed and the pull of money is too much to let go. As much as everyone seems to hate POM, I do hope that ALW can work his magic and actually make this sequel into something wonderful. (I'm not holding my breath though:)
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:24 am

You never babble. Speak freely. We're all friends here.

After posting a list of stories similar to Phantom, I forgot the memorable Cyrano de Bergerac. Here was a man who displayed no shame for his looks and yet could not and would not tell the fair Roxanne how much he loved her. Christian being an honorable person, encouraged Cyrano to tell Roxanne the truth, that all the pretty words she loved so much was not from him but Cyrano.

At Christian's death, all thoughts of telling the truth fled and he kept up the lie that Christian wrote and spoke all the beautiful things a woman wants to hear. In this way, it seemed much like when Erik released Christine and Raoul to go away together.

The play was moving but comical. Cyrano did not hide himself like Erik or stalk pretty girls from the shadows, hidden corners or two-way mirrors. But no matter how much he acknowledged his enormous nose, his flaw and obstacle in life, he still missed out in being with the woman he loved, just like poor unhappy Erik.


Here is a clip from the 1950 film starring José Ferrer:



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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:48 am

It's amazing how many similar stories and adaptations there are out there. This actually looks like quite a good story.
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:13 pm

Here is another version of Cyrano as played by Gérard Depardieu in 1990. This one is entirely in French with subtitles.

My favorite is the 1950 version until I saw Kevin Kline in a PBS telecast of the same. It was completely on stage with Jennifer Garner as the fair Roxanne.

Here is Depardieu:



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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:40 pm

I think the wrong video attached, this is the Robert Englund version again Smile But I love Gerard Depardieu
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:35 pm

Look at it now. I had a difficult time with the laptop over the weekend. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Kevin Kline played Cyrano in the 2009 stage version which PBS aired this past Saturday. I like it. Excellent performance. Enjoy!


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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:24 am

Loved the stage version, I saw it here in Denver. The prose was magnificently spoken, which completely impressed my husband. I also have the Depardieu movie. I think there are so many portrayals because we have likenesses buried within us all, most are just never mentioned or given light but all strike a cord.

You two are quite the conversationalists. I go away for a few days and come back to a long discussion, whew!
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:27 pm

Angelsmasque you need come by more often and join in the conversation. There is so much about Phantom to explore. The more we talk, the more we find stories similar to Erik and Christine.

I loved Cyrano as well. The 1950 version with Jose Ferrer was the first one I saw and then the other night PBS aired Kevin Kline's version. Both were well done and as you mentioned, the witty dialogue captivated me.

This next video is Jean Cocteau'sLe Belle et la Bête filmed in
1946. Enjoy!


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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:51 pm

Interesting that in most of these situations it is the characters' looks which are meant to define them. What if we were to base our opinions of others based upon our other senses, as if we were blind? What would our society be like? Curious how we rely upon our sight and how it can be most undependable. Ah, the proverbial book and its cover.

I try to get to the site when I can. Thank you for the extra boost, Fay. And, the clips are great.
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:43 pm

Angelsmasque....you speak of the society that I dream about. A society where looks play nothing in our opinions of people. Our opinions are based solely on the person inside, who they really are. What a wonderful world it would be.

But you're right...all these clips and films and movies all have the same premise behind them.....a somehow deformed or disfigured male falls in love with a beautiful young woman who must learn to see past the physical and love the man for who he is, not how he looks.

It's nice to see you on the site more often. I enjoy reading your comments Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:22 pm

I don't know about you but it seems to me there's a communication deficit. When I read classic literature I get a kick out of the inferences, but if one gets something wrong then lives are in a chaotic mess.

I suppose, in some way, these sites are good at bringing people together so thoughts can be explored and discussed. We know a person, hopefully, before there is anything to judge visually. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:30 pm

You are absolutely right. Every person finds something different when they read than others may see. I love sharing these ideas and thoughts with other people willing to do the same. And as you said, we can communicate for who we are, not what we look like or what we do for work. Sometimes the internet can be a wonderful place Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:44 pm

I've posted this on the thread called The Phantom of the Opera Coming to Los Angeles in 2009, but I wanted to make sure those who don't check out that thread will see what I'll be seeing tomorrow at the Pantages Theatre. John Cudia is the current Phantom.



Now I get to tell you if there is a change in anything. Whoo hoo!
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:13 am

I am so jealous! I would give anything to see this live again!
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:10 am

Appearently John Cudia played Jean Valjean in Les Misérables first and then portrayed Raoul for some time. Then for 10 weeks he took Howard McGillin's place as the Phantom until July 28, 2008.

Novermber 26,2008 he now is the Phantom as POTO goes on a national tour.

Here is a salute to the Canadian production of Phantom:




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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:01 pm

This actually brought a tear to my eye. Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine were my introduction to POTO some 15 years ago. I have listened to this sound recording thousands of times since seeing it live. This will probably always be my favorite recording, it brings back such memories.
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:50 pm

Is that a beard Cudia is sporting? Can you imagine the outcome if our Erik tried to go without shaving? Perhaps he doesn't have to. <_<
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PostSubject: Re: Q & A ABOUT PHANTOM & TRIVIA   Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:58 am

Funny, I noticed the beard right away too. Just because it was so different, I'd never seen another phantom with a beard. I suppose Erik wouldn't have to shave, I wouldn't think anyway.
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