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 HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?

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PhantomnessFay
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PostSubject: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:15 am

Qui non si può speculare. Lo scopo per questo thread è
quello di presentare la prova che ha fatto Erik esiste. Tutte le informazioni circa i caratteri in conto, come Christine, Raoul, ecc sono considerati la prova. Lo stesso con l'Opera di Parigi, a volte chiamato The Garnier o Paris Opera House.

Alcuni stesso il carattere di Christine Daae è stato creato da un documentato diva svedese di nome Christine Nilsson. Ecco un link con le informazioni relative a Miss Nilsson:
http://www.picturehistory.com/product/id/10955

Secondo tutti i Leroux questo è accaduto nel 1885, l'Opera Garnier è record di tutti i suoi anni di attività senso ha aperto, e uno di questi manca e indovinare quale anno è! fact2: il governo francese. (a quelli che a qui sono il francese mi scuso in anticipo per qualsiasi reato che si prende a questo post) ha d'assalto le cantine d'Opera e nascosto tutti i Phantom esistenza trova sostegno in una struttura di governo alcuni di questi includono: pezzi di legno che, quando assemblato fatto una maschera completa, dimensionati in modo da coprire l'intero volto di un uomo adulto, una scatola contenente foglio di musica (questo potrebbe essere il famoso Don Jaun
trionfante?) e uno scheletro che aveva un cranio formazione
caratteristica della malattia Porfiria Cutanea Erik ciò che è stato creduto di avere. Questo è ciò che qualcuno pensa Erik possono avere
l'aspetto di:

http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/300W/fs7.deviantart.com/i/2005/255/d/a/Erik__A_Portrait_by_DernWraithslayer.jpg


Ecco il link a un altro sito che presenta elementi di prova:
http://www.ladyghost.com/erik.html

Vi preghiamo di inviare ulteriori elementi di prova. Mi consentirà una discussione, ma solo se tu dici il motivo per cui si ritiene o miscredenti. Che cosa ne pensi?
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:49 am

Sì,sì ...Mi avevano detto che era possibile che Erik fosse esistito veramente !
Io ci credo...Penso sia possibile tutto ciò *_*

Voi,invece ,che ne pensate?
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:57 am

Non vedo la seconda immagine la puoi ri mettere?
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:10 am

Senza dubbio credo Erik veramente esistiti e sono distacco quello che abbiamo nella sezione inglese e anche da altre sedi.

Sapete che è Ladyghost? Lei è molto popolare tra Phantom Phans e ha un sito web pieno di informazioni.

Qui è il secondo link che lei ha detto di non funzionare:
http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/300W/fs7.deviantart.com/i/2005/255/d/a/Erik__A_Portrait_by_DernWraithslayer.jpg


Qui è un sito web che descrive la malattia citare:
http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic344.htm

Ecco cosa ha Ladyghost per il suo sito per quanto riguarda la famosa danneggiamento del lampadario:
http://www.ladyghost.com/chandelier.html

Vi preghiamo di vedere se è possibile trovare maggiori informazioni per
provare Erik veramente esistito. Si commenti sono benvenuti. Grazie.
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:00 am

Certo *_*

Allora io posto quello che avevo trovato un pò di tempo fa un un sito italiano e che hanno postato anche sul mio forum dedicato a p.o.t.o.

A existat Erik? -> Un tur al catacombelor operei

This
amazing missive was not originally an article but rather a personal
letter to me from a Phantom fan in Paris. Because this is an
alternative Phantom legend coming straight from the Paris Opera itself,
I have translated a it into English and reprinted it here with the
author's permission though she did ask me to use her screen name rather
than her real name. After several years of haunting the opera library
and fruitlessly searching for evidence that the Phantom was real, the
author of the following letter was taken under the wing of Madame
Renata de Waele, public relations officer of the Opera Garnier at the
time, and given the following tour and information. As an interesting
aside, Brigitta D'Arcy, author of Le Fantome, received similar
information and a similar tour from de Waele. It was upon this
information that she based the first half of her novel Le Fantome. -CH
FROM
THE FIRST moment that Renata [de Waele] began my tour of the cellars, I
felt like a child, awestruck not just by all that I was seeing but more
than anything by the simple fact that I was setting foot where Eric
(sic) long ago used to walk and hide. When one traverses such
underground passages, one understands that it would not be difficult to
hide there. There is such a surprising number of wall supports,
adjacent galleries and other such complications that this underground
world would be a treasure for any lover of "Hide-and-Go-Seek."
At
first I followed Renata a little timidly. I asked her any question that
came to mind simply to try to break the ice and to see how she would
take my curiosity. But it was with a particular enthusiasm that she
answered me and in a tone that was certain and reassuring... a tone
that encouraged other questions. She led me to the circular,
subterranean rotunda, recognizable by its dome of stones and apprised
me of the fact that the rotunda is the virtual acoustic center of the
Opera Garnier. It's a chamber that catches every sound from overhead
with incomparable sonority.
I remarked that the construction of this
underground rotunda was almost the same as the one up above, a round
symmetrical construction that seemed to cause every sound to converge
at its center. It's the framework of the rotunda that is built above, a
sort of skeleton for the other one.
We continued down the same
corridor and stopped a bit further on, facing a locked metallic door
with a concrete seal. It was here that Renata began her story..
She
told me that a certain Monsieur Clark made a donation to the Opera of
phonographically recorded voices that weren't supposed to be played or
exploited in any way until the passage of a certain number of years.
During the intervening years it was necessary to securely guard them
within a walled storage facility beneath the Opera... a facility which
it had been necessary to build.
Before construction began there had
not been a door in that wall. Some workers and the people most involved
in the project looked for the best place to dig. The search involved
finding a place that was well reinforced. It also had to be a place
removed from the everyday comings and goings of workmen while at the
same time being close to the underground accessway. At last the spot
was chosen.
It was while demolishing the chosen wall that the
workers discovered an apartment, a sort of furnished two-room studio
with all the comforts of the 19th Century.
The workmen-who had not
immediately realized the importance of their discovery-emptied the
room. Although it was not something that happened frequently, workers
of that period sometimes did take the liberty of setting up a living
space for themselves in some private corner of the Opera. Thus it was
not considered extraordinary until, after having completely emptied the
room, the workers began to wonder how its tenant had entered his
domain... because there weren't any doors.
Renata said that it was
Eric who had walled up the entrance. [The wall he built] was the very
same one that the workers had demolished. She also told me that he had
allowed himself to die inside, probably of hunger... and that it was
someone from the Opera who had covered the wall [on the other side].
It
was in 1907 that the skeleton of Eric was recovered. It was badly
decomposed and was said to be quite large and clearly masculine. The
skull was asymmetrical. A deformity as severe as Eric's could not have
had any origin but a basic malformation of the bone and cartilage.
I
said to Renata that at the time when the skeleton was found, many said
that it was the skeleton of a prisoner and she responded simply that
the dungeons had not been located on that side of the building. And
furthermore, if this were a prisoner's skeleton, it would not have been
found by itself nor [would it have been found] so much later [than the
others].
Point made, she spoke to me of that history and of the
construction of the Opera as if it had all happened yesterday. The way
she told it, I felt as though she had been there, in Eric's time, even
though some of the tale she could not have been witness to herself. I
felt a little silly and I didn't know what to think. Perhaps she was
simply playing along with me. Perhaps she was saying what she thought
I'd wanted to hear.
Eric was the principal subject of the
conversation but [according to Renata] only his first name is known.
His last name remains a mystery. Perhaps he had just wanted to forget
it. At that time, those who did not have the chance to be like the rest
of humanity were considered monsters; they had no rights and such
individuals who were born amongst the nobility often lost both their
title and their dignity.
Eric had attended the Opera's inauguration
in 1875... His tribulations in Persia were not unknown. Renata told me
that he had left home at the age of eight and had earned his living in
the circuses that used to travel Europe. He learned architecture in
Persia and returned to Paris to work on the construction of the Grand
Hotel. Then [Charles] Garnier announced his need for workmen to build
the new Opera.
Seriously interested, Eric was engaged as a simple
stone mason which allowed him to build his underground apartments while
the attention [of the others] was on the problem of the high water
table.
On the subject of Christine Dahe (sic), she existed, and with
that name. But she was a simple chorus girl and as anonymous as all the
others.
Eric fell in love but he knew that if he showed himself to
her she would never love him. It was as a result of this that the idea
of the Phantom was born. He had started to disguise himself and to
develop that whole facet of his personality that no one had known
before. Those who knew "Eric the construction worker" didn't know him
to have any outstanding qualities other than his great interest in
music. Thus, when the malign and gifted Phantom appeared, no one
imagined that it could be Eric, the poor boy who had worked on the
Opera foundations.
Regarding his mystery and his gift of seducing
women... Dahe stayed approximately two weeks in Eric's company and away
from the singers' foyer. Then she left him-God knows why-and the poor
Phantom never found another reason to wear his mask or his cape. He
became Eric once more but because of the [emotional] pain [he
suffered], he allowed himself to starve to death in his apartments
after walling up the principal entry.
Someone knew about it... the
same someone who buried the corpse. It was that mysterious someone whom
Leroux christened, "the Persian." No one really knows who it was.
That
is what Renata told me... that Leroux had the outline and the setting
for his novel, and then all he had to do was fill in the gaps.
Leroux
bestowed a good deal of his own personality upon the character of Erik
[in his novel]. He gave him his own parent. Leroux's father was an
entrepreneur... so was Erik's. Leroux gave Erik his taste for quasi
anonymous letters, written in red ink, etc. Leroux had previously
written some "accusatory" articles directed at the Opera. On May 13,
1897, following the Rue Goujon catastrophe, an unsigned article
entitled "And the Opera? The Danger of Catching Fire" appeared. On June
26 another article entitled "The Opera: The Iron Curtain." Leroux also
bore a resemblance to his Erik with regard to the name changes: Leroux
to Larive, Georges Larive, then Georges-Gaston Larive, etc. It was
perhaps the fire that first called Eric to his attention. He published
The Phantom of the Opera [as a serial] in Le Galois beginning September
23, 1909 and continuing until January 8, 1910 after which the complete
novel was published by Lafitte...


Writing in red: At the
time, writing in red was extremely impolite. It meant that one was
making fun of the person to whom he was writing. It was for this reason
that Erik wrote in red.

Dahe... changed to Daae. Was she
Nilsson? No. She was Dahe. But it's true that Gaston Leroux used
Nilsson as the model [for Christine in his book]. The talent of one
chorus girl would not have impassioned the public! People always admire
those they can never be: an unparalleled singer, a magnificent and
magical Phantom... something along the lines of hero worship.
Consequently the solid gold ring [found on the skeleton] really did
have C.D. on it in large, unmistakable letters... only it was lost in
[one of the subsequent] wars.
There it is. Perhaps you might feel a
little disappointed by that simple truth... There is no hard evidence,
no list or other appearance of the names of the workers, no letters
signed F. de l'O and no palace on the lake. This history was
transmitted by word of mouth, like a legend... And there is no proof.
Or, there is no proof anymore. As a researcher I still have my doubts.
I told Renata that there must be some written document but she assured
me that if such a document had ever existed, the Opera would probably
have destroyed it.
[I have found] nothing dating from 1879 that
recalls any incidents involving a phantom. I've found nothing but the
most meager allusions in the Opera library:


M. Halanzier
(1879) was accused of "falsifying theatre receipts" (article 57): "In
1875, [management] exaggerated expenses for that same year and
manufactured the sum of 250,600 francs expended for two new works when
there were no new works for that year." Leroux explains both the latter
and the former: "the Phantom needed a source of income..."

"M. Vaucorbiel (1879-1886) succeeds Halanzier on November 1, 1879..."

"Mademoiselle
Krauss (a diva): became ill. She couldn't sing for 10 days. Don Juan
was replaced by Faust." (April, 1879) Could Krauss be the real Carlotta?

The
journal The Parisian. Article, May 29, 1879. A short article on a
Phantom of the "Avenue de l'Opera" who played the ocarina. Nothing
precise, though.
Presently I've given up searching the indexes, not
because I'm tired of it but because I am convinced that Renata was
right. I was struck dumb after that visit... even though the doubts
persisted. I tried to find evidence confirming her story for six months
but it turned out to be an impossible task. I believe that with regard
to this matter, science and my proud curiosity will have to be content
with a simple oral account.



Non so se l'avevi già visto o letto ...
Per il disegno sul sito deviart non si vede ancora ç_ç : Non capisco come mai.
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:53 pm

La ringrazio per le informazioni supplementari. Non ricordo la lettura di questa prima. Renata de Waele Ho sentito parlare, ma ho pensato è stata genealogista. Dove hai trovato questo articolo? E 'la dice lunga, ma come si fa a sapere se è vero?

Questo è stato da un sito web? Avete altre informazioni? Mi
sono divertito.

Ti ricordi Carrie Henandez? Che la prima dove ho sentito parlare di Renata.

A existat Erik? --> A tur to catacombelor operei Che cosa è questo? Mi perdoni, ma non capisco.
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:52 pm

Dev'essere il sottotitolo: Un Tur nelle catacombe/sotterranei dell'Opera.

Questo articolo l'hanno postato sul mio forum delle ragazze .
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Se guardate la fine di uno dei punti vicino all'inizio, vi è un-CH. Si tratta di Carrie Herrandez. Ho letto questo prima. Per questo motivo ho chiesto se si sapeva che Carrie è Herrandez.

Vive qui in Los Angeles, California, Stati Uniti d'America zona vicino a me. Un tempo aveva un bel sito con tanta informazione. Questo articolo è stato uno di loro.

Chiedere alla ragazza che postato questo dove ha trovato l'articolo. Per favore. Abbiamo tutti cercando di essere il suo
contatto. Il sito è non di più. Grazie.
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:33 am

Sì,no,non sapevo chi fosse Carrie: ho da un anno e mezzo internet per cui ,penso,di non aver mai visitato un suo sito web.

Sì,chiedo alla ragazza dove l'ha trovato così lo segnalo anche a voi ^^
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:34 am

Carrie Hernandez ha avuto un grande sito web con un sacco di fatti a
dimostrare Erik è stato una persona reale. Circa tre anni fa, il sito è
scomparso. Rumor ha detto il sito è stato per molto lavoro da
mantenere. Non so se questo è vero. Questo articolo da te pubblicato è
ciò che ha scritto.

Carrie ha scritto un libro intitolato Angel of Music uno Phan fic:
http://www.amazon.com/Angel-Music-Tales-Phantom-Opera/dp/1413472796/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220545805&sr=8-1

Sono sorpreso che lei abbia avuto solo Internet per un anno e mezzo. Ho
avuto Internet sul posto di lavoro e casa per più di dieci anni.
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:30 pm

Dev'essere bellissimo questo libro... *_* Dici che se lo ordino mi arriverà anche in Italia?
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:36 pm

Sì, Amazon.com consegnerà in Italia, ma il libro è solo in inglese. Se
si da per Amazon, individuare il libro da il codice ISBN; ISBN-10:
1413472796.
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:54 am

Sì,immaginavo fosse in inglese:però mi fa piacere averlo e (cercare) di leggerlo ^^
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:17 am

Sono le seguenti date e gli eventi in ordine cronologico, che sostengono l'autenticità di Erik o il romanzo. Leggi e dobbiamo discutere.

**********

1821 - prima presentazione presso l'Opera Peletier.

1834 - George du Maurier è nato;

Alcuni fatti interessanti circa du Maurier: script di rivelare alcuni personalità spaccata, ha voluto cantare Opera come suo padre, ma non poteva, perso di vista il suo occhio sinistro.

1856 - George du Maurier ritorna a Parigi, dopo essere stato all'estero per circa 5 anni;

1862 - prima pietra d'Opera Garnier;

1868 - Leroux è nato;

1871 - Le esecuzioni dei communards svolgerà nel Opera Garnier, ancora in costruzione, dove si rifugiò (in questo sito si trova un riferimento a uno scheletro di essere trovati, e come quella di uno dei communards. Tuttavia, ho ancora nessun riferimento storico per la constatazione di un tale scheletro, anche se dal momento che la storia di Leroux sembra essere un elaborato da cucire di fatti reali non necessariamente collegati in tempo, credo che uno scheletro potrebbe essere stato - http://www.histoire-en- ligne.com / spip ... 115 & artsuite = 3 # sommaire_1);

1873 - Peletier Opera è distrutto in un enorme incendio; Opéra di Parigi ha subito diverse modifiche dei nomi e dei luoghi in quanto la anni 1790: è stato chiamato successivamente Théâtre de l'Opéra, Théâtre des Arts, Académie Impériale de Musique, e Académie Royale de Musique, e ha occupato diverse sedi: Théâtre de la Porte-St-Martin, Théâtre Montansier, il primo Salle Favart, il Théâtre Louvois, Le Peletier, Palais Garnier, e la Bastiglia.

Opéra di Parigi pseudonimo Le Théâtre de l'Académie Royale de Musique (l'Opéra), conosciuto come Le Peletier. E 'stato costruito in dodici mesi nel Rue Le Peletier di DEBRET l'architetto e ha aperto nel 1821, il 6 febbraio 1822 il gas utilizzato per la prima volta alla luce di effetti in fase Aladin ou La Lampe Merveilleuse. Cinquant'anni dopo che è stato distrutto da un incendio che infuriato per 24 ore il 28-29 ottobre 1873. Le rovine sono state demolite e il terreno è stato venduto in 14 lotti. L'Opera House è stato sostituito dal Opéra Garnier.

1875 - L'Opera Garnier è inaugurato;

1894 - Trilby, di George du Maurier (diventa un best-seller);

Trilby - Un artista che cade per un modello di nome Little Billee e vuole sposarla. Sua madre consiglia di lasciare il suo o lei porterà disonore a lui (in quei giorni i modelli e le prostitute sono state considerate le stesse). Trilby foglie perché lo ama. Anni più tardi l'artista partecipa al concerto di un famoso cantante, La Svengali, che è sposato con Svengali, e trova che questo meraviglioso cantante non è altro che Trilby ... ma i suoi occhi guardano vuoto. E 'stata ipnotizzato da Svengali e ora esiste come un guscio vuoto. Svengali muore per un attacco di cuore, Trilby "risveglia" e si trova in grado di cantare e muore poco dopo Svengali, e lo stesso accade a Little Billee.


1896 - Chandelier cade l'Opera Garnier;

1907 - Leroux lascia il giornalismo (Wikipedia) / Leroux luoghi il ritrovamento di ossa nella Opera House a tale data, a causa della reale caso di capsula del tempo (circa il sigillati in registrazioni, si è pregati di leggere http://www.francetoday .com / funzioni / phantoms.php);

1910 - Leroux scrive Le Fantôme de l'Opéra;

1925 - Carl Laemmle uscite film muto "Il fantasma dell'opera" interpretato da Lon Chaney.

1927 - Leroux muore.
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:27 am

Grazie mille!!!
Non le avevo mai trovate queste date Shocked
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PhantomnessFay
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:46 am

Ci vuole tempo per la ricerca, ma tutto questo è su Internet. Credo che la storia del fantasma è vero e sono determinati a dimostrarlo. Che cosa ne pensi?

Ancora una volta, il mio amico, dove sei stato? Non ho vederla per un lungo periodo di tempo. Abbiamo perso voi. affraid


Last edited by PhantomnessFay on Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Christine Daae
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:34 am

Ma ...A lavoro :sono un po' piena di impegni.
Mi hanno pubblicato un libro di poesie e ho dovuto controllare e ricontrollare alcune cose.

Io penso che sia vera la storia del Fantasma.
Per me è possibile .Speriamo che riescano a trovare ancora prove sull'esistenza di Erik!
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:33 am

Hai pubblicato un libro di poesia? Congratulazioni! Non sapevo che hai scritto poesie. Si può condividere alcune con noi? Si sono contento indietro.

Che cosa vi fa sentire che Phantom è una storia vera? Che cosa è diversa in questa storia da qualsiasi altra?
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PostSubject: Re: HA FATTO ERIK, IL FANTASMA ESISTE VERAMENTE?   Today at 3:11 pm

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