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 THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION

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PhantomnessFay
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PostSubject: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:06 pm

Did all you Phans know there was yet another translation of The Phantom of the Opera by Gaston Leroux? Well, there is and here is the link to it:

http://www.blackcoatpress.com/phantom.htm

I just ordered this new translation, so I cannot comment on it yet. There is a link to an artical by Carrie Hernandez which prompted me to buy it.

According to Carrie, this may be a more accurate translation. For instance, the part about the Scorpion and the Grasshopper; and I quote:

In French "sauter" means both "to jump" and (more colloquially) "to explode" or "to die." "Il va sauter" could mean he's going to jump, he's going to explode or he's going to die. To be faithful in spirit to Leroux, ideally you'd need an animal whose action/verb means both to blow up and to die. "Grasshopper" completely fails on both counts. It jumps but does not blow up and does not kill. "Grasshopper" completely misses Erik's ghastly double-entendre. It is a very bad translation in my humble opinion. [On the other hand] a frog jumps (though in English we still lose the notion of jumping/exploding) but it also croaks, and there we have the double entendre, a pun [whereby] to croak=to die.

For the sake of illustration I've included a chart below with the original French version followed by the Lofficier's adaptation and, to see how that compares to a translation that focuses on individual words first and overall meaning second, Leonard Wolf's.


Chapter 26
Original French
Faut-il Tourner le Scorpion? Faut-il Tourner la Sauterelle?
« La sauterelle!… Prends garde à la sauterelle!… Ça ne tourne pas seulement une sauterelle!… Ça sauté!… ça saute joliment bien!…»

Lofficier
The Scorpion or the Frog? "'The frog! Be careful of the frog! A frog does not only turn: it also croaks! It croaks! As we might all croak when all is said and done!'"

Wolf
To Turn the Scorpion? Or To Turn the Grasshopper?
"The grasshopper. Beware of the grasshopper. It's not only the grasshopper that will hop, hop. It hops quite well."

End of quote.

I really wish I could get my hands on the orignal French version of the famed novel.

What do you think?


Razz Razz Razz
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:52 pm

I bought it a year ago and it's really great!
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:50 pm

Greetings ladyghost!

Tell us what differences you found in it and do you think it's better than the other tranlations?

After reading this one, do you see Phantom in a different way?

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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:12 am

It is really good, indeed, not only because the tranlation but also for its drawings by different artists and a final original tale (which I never understood completely, but oh well).
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:10 pm

From what I understand, the translators hoped that their work would be better and clearer than the others. The new story was written my one of the translators, Jean-Marc as a Phan fic.

What was this translation like compared to the others? What were the differences?

You read it, what was it about? Was it difficult to understand? What did you think of it ladyghost?

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:37 pm

I just received my copy the other day. I will start reading it shortly. I am anxious to see the differences.

If any body has anything to say about this translation, please let us know. affraid
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:40 pm

I was interested to find out that there was another translation available. I am attempting to grow my book collection with such books as The Phantom of Manhattan by Frederick Forsythe and Phantom by Susan Kay. I come from a french background, unfortunately over the years I've lost a lot of it. I would love to read the original french text. Has anyone read it yet? As mentioned above, things can often take on different meanings in translation. Now I'm going to add another book to my "Phantom" wishlist Smile
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:22 am

I haven't bought the French version yet, but I did find it on Amazon.com. Jean-Marc, one of the translators of this version referred me there or to ebay for a French copy.

Since I'm in the middle of Twilight, I think I'll let it rest and start this one. When I've read it, you will get a complete report.

I understand the book Shadowmen has Erik in it, however, I have to find out which book in the series. Jean-Marc referred me to this book as well and can be purchased on the same website given at the beginning of this thread.
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:31 pm

I wasn't able to find Jean-Marcs translation on Amazon.ca (where I do most of my online shopping), but you did provide a link to it to buy it. I haven't looked on ebay yet. For some reason, it's hard to find these Phantom books in my city. I've checked our Chapters website, and they are listed, they can be ordered, but none of them are instock here, or even in Halifax (my parents are there for a week). Since I probably won't be able to afford a new book, I will likely finish Leroux's novel, then start back to page 1 Smile
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:37 pm

I don't think it's selling anywhere but from the link I provided. I will check for more info.
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:06 pm

Wow. I really want to but that now and see the difference. I wish I could get my hands on an original French copy as well. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:01 pm

I'm probably half way through this translation, and for the most part, it reads the same, except for the aforementioned 'frog vs grasshopper' section.

I see small differences, but the main story is the same. The translations of the songs are not word for word the same, but that is to be expected.

One thing, I can say, but I will have to go back and check, this version does not say Christine is twenty. It says she's seventeen and Raoul is twenty-one.

Mme. Giry is not called a box attendant but an usher. I assume Jean-Marc is trying to give us a modern wording.

At the moment, those are the differences I see.

snowmoccasin, check the French site of Amazon.com for the French copy of POTO. I believe I saw it there and will buy one when I can afford it.

Hope this helps. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:50 am

Man now I want a copy of this new translation!

I need another copy for when I move in with my mom 'cause the one I have now is really my aunt's so I won't get to take it with me.

The cover is really pretty good...**cough**creepy**cough**
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:11 pm

BlackMaskWhiteMask, if you are permitted, you can order from the link provided. The book arrives rather quickly. You would enjoy.


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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:51 pm

I just ordered this book through the link you provided. I'm anxious to get it and begin reading it. I would love to get the original french, that may be the next one I get. I found out this weekend at my cousin's wedding that my french is a little better than I thought it was Smile
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:59 am

See Gabby, you short change yourself. You know more than you think. Good for you.

Once you get this new translation and read it, let us know your thoughts about it.

The French version is the next stop for me as well.

cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:40 pm

You know what though....I'm having a hard time tracking down the french version of this book. It's the original, but I can't find the darned thing. Probably has to do with my slightly affected brain that doesn't what to do what I'm telling it to Razz

Do you have a link to where you can purchase the orignal french version? I'll likely have to sit down with it and a dictionary, but who cares! Lol
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:32 pm

Go to the French area of Amazon.com.

Here are some links:

http://www.amazon.fr/Fant%C3%B4me-lOp%C3%A9ra-Gaston-Leroux/dp/2253009504/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225052893&sr=8-1


Aussi:

http://www.amazon.fr/s/ref=nb_ss_w?__mk_fr_FR=%C5M%C5Z%D5%D1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Le+Fantome+de+l%27opera+le+livre&x=0&y=0


Hope this helps. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:31 am

Did I ever tell you that I got this new translation? And did I then tell you that I forgot I had this translation and am reading my original copy again? In case I forgot, thanks for the french copy! I was looking at it the other day, and I think since I've read the english version so many times, I may be able to muddle through.

As for the new translation....it doesn't seem to be that different. It does seem to have more modern wording, which of course makes things much easier. If you had to choose, which version would it be?
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am

Yes, you did tell me you got the new translation. I've read most of it, but the major difference is the 'Scorpion and the Grasshopper' chapter. The new translation say 'Frog' instead of 'Grasshopper', however, the French copy I have says 'Grasshopper (or locust)' not 'Frog'.

The fellow who translated this told me he gave a literal translation from the French, but I don't see it. Don't where he got his copy or what he was reading.

You are correct, the wording is a little more modern than the Lowell Baird one, but its the same for the most part.

Thank you for your input. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:56 pm

How fun to read reviews in French! I might just have to get myself a copy.
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:42 am

Angelsmasque, you miss the point. The reviews are not in French, the entire novel is in French.
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:11 am

I didn't miss the point. Who would want copies of reviews? I know the novel is in French ... that is what I meant about getting myself a copy. I was just excited to read some reviews on Leroux, native opinions about the book in its original language.
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:34 pm

My bad. Guess I just misunderstood. My apologies.

You can get a French version of POTO on Amazon, the Canadian section. The France area may have it as well, but I think it would get to you quicker from Canada.

Enjoy! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: THE NEW LEROUX, JEAN-MARC AND RANDY LOFFICIER PHANTOM ADAPTION   Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:20 pm

Using text does not always capture our meanings. I could have been clearer rather than to post only my reaction to reading the reviews. Onward!
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